Read the following two documents: Luther and the 95 theses and Selections from the decrees of the Council of Trent. Blog questions to answer:
What are the problems both Luther and the Council of Trent see with the Catholic church? How does Luther plan to address these problems? What is the church's (council's) response to Luther?
Both Luther and the Council of Trent wanted the Church to reform from within itself. They both also wanted the selling of indulgences to stop. Luther posted his 95 Theses on a door of a church. When the Church heard about it, they wanted him to rewrite it, but he wouldn't. So, they excommunicated him.
ReplyDeleteLuther originally wanted the church to reform and not to break away. Luther and the council of Trent wanted the church to quit doing bad things like selling indulgences, bishops, popes, and priests having children and mistresses, and selling church positions. Luther posted his 95 theses which were problems he had with his church on his local church door in Saxony. The Counci of Trent asked him to recant, he refused, and he was excommunicated and lived as an outlaw.
ReplyDeleteI agree with George. Luther and the Council agreed on many aspects like the integrity of popes, priests, and bishops, and they were against the sale of indulgences.
DeleteBoth Luther and the Council saw how corrupt the church had become and believed they should reform certain things that they did. Martin didn't like how the church interpreted the bible and believed that the church gaining money for freedom of God's punishment was wrong. The Council stated in the decrees how the church should educate the clergy and explain the mass and holy orders more clearly. Luther planned to address his problems to the church by creating his 95 theses. The church after awhile condemned Luther as a heretic and then excommunicated him.
ReplyDeleteI guess I agree with Caleb's thoughts. Luther didn't want to break away from the church, but eventually did. Which later lead to different denominations.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kelly's reply. Luther's ideals and policies concerning the church changed dramatically after he was excommunicated, most likely to the dismay of the Catholic Church. Luther amassed many followers and created a distinct separation from the Catholic Church, diminishing it's authority as he had originally wanted, just in a different way
DeleteBoth Luther and the council of Trent wanted reform in the Catholic Church but neither wanted a breakdown of centralized religion in Europe. After Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the church he was asked to rewrite them and after he refused he was excommunicated and labeled a heratic even though he raised valid points this caused him and his followers to break away from the Catholic Church
ReplyDeleteI agree with choke that they didn't want a breakdown of religion but in the end Luther had no choice because of his beliefs. So he had to separate. There was no way they could stay together with all of the arguments Luther had brought up.
DeleteBoth Luther and the Council of Trent believed that the Catholic Church was in need of reformation. This included changes in the amount of clerical authority, where this authority was originating from, and an end to corrupt practices including the selling of indulgences. Luther attempted to take a direct approach at the church's internal reformation by addressing his 95 theses to the Church and putting these complaints on the church's door. Upon hearing of this, the Church held a meeting with Luther supposedly to hear his complaints, but asked him to recant his thesis. Luther refused and was charged with heresy and excommunicated from the church. His excommunication spurred his changing ideals of splitting from the church instead of reforming it from the inside, which in turn sparked the Protestant Reformation and lead to more separations from the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carolines point that the church was going to here his complaints and only asked him to change some of them... Hoping he would kind of mellow out and they could resolve his feelings of wanting reform.
DeleteI agree with Caroline and Tucker that Luther thought the selling of indulgences was corrupt and he wanted the church to get rid of it. When he approached the church about it he got excommunicated.
DeleteBoth Luther and the Council of Trent wanted reform within the Catholic Church. They wanted an end to the sale of indulgences/sacraments, an end to the impurity of religious officials (having secret kids and relationships), and an end to the sale of religious offices. Luther addressed these problems by posting his 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg. He also distributed pamphlets about internal reform in the Church. The Church called Luther a heretic and excommunicated him. Defiantly, Luther burned the writ of excommunication. However, Charles V later forbade Luther from preaching and declared him a heretic.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sydonne's emphasis on Luther's defiance of authority. After being charged with heresy and excommunicated, he refused to be beaten. In addition to his burning of the writ and his handing out of pamphlets, he secretly continued to preach and ultimately caused the formation of the Protestant Church. This formation, a result of Luther's defiance, would forever change the course of history in both Europe and North America.
DeleteWe know that Luther strongly opposed the church being the authority, but he would rather the Bible be everyone's authority. Both Luther and the council of Trent wanted the church to reform itself from within rather than split the church. They wanted to clean up the church, and take away the things that weren't scriptural, like the selling of indulgences, the purchase and selling of church positions, the pope, the bishops and other things like that. Luther's plan to address the churches problems by directly addressing the Pope about what he shouldn't be doing, he posted the 95 thesis to the church. The church or council didn't take direct action, at first king Fredrick just placed him on house arrest and then later they called him in for a meeting where they give him the opportunity to explain himself and when he was asked recant them, he denied it so they excommunicated him and labeled his as a hertic.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Reagan in the fact that Luther wanted the bible to be the cheif authority and not have the pope which the bible didn't speak of be the authority
DeleteI also agree with Reagan saying how Luther thought that the only authority should be in the Bible and that the Catholic Church should clean itself up by removing all of the nonscriptual things.
DeleteLuther and the Council of Trent both agreed that the Catholic Church had obviously become corrupt; Luther stressed in his first few theses the illegitimate power of the Pope, whom he claimed did not have the right to forgive sins, only the right to declare that God has forgiven the sins. As for the Council, they wanted reform to come in the sense of clarification of disputed ideas. They developed concrete answers for specific Protestant debates such as indulgences and baptism. Although both Luther and the Council wanted reform, they believed in different methods and reasons. In addition, Luther ultimately broke away from the Church, which, although not a part of his original intentions, was completely separate from the motives of the Council. After being charged with 52 sentences of heresy, Luther was excommunicated and banned from preaching. However, he continued to spread his beliefs throughout northern Germany.
ReplyDeleteI like how Jacob discusses that while bother Luther and the Council wanted reform, they went about it using different methods.I also agree that Luther had not originally planned to break away from the church, but in the end he had no other choice.
DeleteThe Council of Trent and Luther were looking to better the church with reform, just Luther was a little more extreme. They both supported the stoppage of selling indulgences and they both wanted Popes and priests to stop having mistresses and children. When Luther posted his theses on the church door, he wasnt looking to break away from the church, and the church only wanted him to recant or change some of his points. they hoped that eventually he would mellow out but Luther refused which eventually led to his excommunication and him going into hiding.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tucker in that Luther was more extreme in persecuting the church than the Council of Trent was. Luther posted 95 theses
Deleteincluding multiple wrongs the church did while the Council just pointed out certain wrong doings the church did.
Luther and the COuncil of Trent were for reform of the church. THey both did not accpet the superstition that went along with the sale of indulgences, and the thought that a soul flies from purgatory when clinking is heard in the collection plate. They agree that the church has gone corrupt, and priests and popes were not even chaste. Luther and the council wanted reform, with no separation. from the church. However in the end, Luther was forced to break away from the church. He was condemned a heretic on 52 counts, and was excommunicated. Charles V banned him from ever preaching again in the country.
ReplyDeleteI agree in that both luther and the council did not view popes as chaste, for the council of trent emphasized on moral values in their institutions. I also agree that both Luther and the council wanted reform, with no separation.
DeleteLuther and the Council of Trent both agreed that the Catholic Church had become currupt and twisted. They thought the Church had strayed away from the teachings of the Bible and how church was displayed in the Bible. Luther plans to address the Church's problems by decreasing the Pope's power. He did not want to completely change the church, he just wanted to reform or revise it. The Church's response to Luther's theses was angery and they disapproved of his teachings. They called Luther to a meeting and ordered him to recant his theses but Luther refused. He was condemned as a heretic and was exocommunicated from the church.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Luther thought the Catholic church was corrupted and they didnt go along with the teachings of the Bible. Luther believed the church had to much power and he didnt think they were using it properly.
DeleteLuther and the Council of Trent had problems with what the church was doing and thought the church was going downhill and should be changed. They didn't like that high up figures were having children and the church was profiting off of gods works like forgiving people by just selling indulgences. They also sold church positions to anyone with enough money to buy them. They wanted to keep the church together but Luther also had more radical reforms. So he wrote up the 95 thesis and nailed it to the church door with all his complaints about the church. The church told him to stop being so disruptive and take back your word and he refused and was labeled a herteic
ReplyDeleteI agree with sterk because both Luther and the Council disagreed with the church and believed that it should be reformed. They didn't agree with church officials having children and selling indulgences and selling church positions. The Council thought that Luther's reforms were too radical so they asked him to recant. He refused and was labeled a heretic.
DeleteBoth Luther and Council of the Trent wanted to do away with the unnecessary indulgences and selling of positions within the church. Luther in his 95 thesis even questions people on why the pope won't preform indulgences for the sake of good. Luther was troubled especially with the sale of indulgences and so e tacked up on the door of the castle church his very own "Ninety-five Theses", which explained everything he viewed wrong with the church. Pope Leo X then ordered Luther to stop bet Luther refused. Luther then broke away from the church developing the theological concept of "freedom of a Christian." The church exocommunicated him and accused him of 41 heresies. Luther was then declared an outlaw and was forbidden to make any changes in religion in the Holy Roman Empire.
ReplyDelete