Group One will make comments on the Romantic Poetry (Blake, Lord Byron) The other 9 will comment on the Nationalism documents of Mazzini, the National Song of Hungary, and the Goya painting the Third of May 1808). Please make 3 comments for your group. This assignment is due Friday.
The Third of May:
ReplyDeleteThis painting shows how the French under Napoleon became more dictator-like and how they were not willing to share the idea of liberty and rights with others.
Giuseppe Mazzini On Nationality:
"They speak the same language, they bear about them the impress of consanguinity, they kneel beside the same tombs, they glory in same tradition; and they demand to associate freely, without obstacles, without foreign domination, in order to elaborate and express their idea; to contribute their stone also to the great pyramid of history."
This excerpt shows how nationalism binds people with the same common interests together.
The Tiger:
"Tiger, tiger burning bright" sounds like twinkle, twinkle little star.
Regarding the 3rd of May- the "others" who is this painting about? How does it relate to the idea of Nationalism. Not the French, right? This isn't a painting about the French, so much as a painting about the Nationalism of the people the French are oppressing.
DeleteYour comment regarding the Tiger is not only not enough, but you were supposed to look at the painting, the Mazzini, and the National Song of Hungary.
DeleteThroughout the National Song of Hungary, Petofi uses words that encourages unity throughout the Hungarian people. He repeats the words "we" and "our" in many different phrases to show that the people are unified. He shows that only together as one unified people will the Hungarians be able to no longer be oppressed by the tyrant. This common goal helps to show nationalistic qualities in these people.
ReplyDeleteI agree, you also see the nationalistic qualities when he mentions that the Hungarians are not afraid to die for their country, along with not bearing to be under a tyrant any longer but to be a free Hungary so that their children's children will honor their names for the hopeful free Hungary. If that's not nationalism i don't know what is.
DeleteGood job Libby and Kil-Hwan.
DeleteGroup 1: Lord Byron's poem is about the beauty of an unnamed woman. The narrator describes her as beautiful, pure, and sweet, like the ideal woman. The poem reflects Romanticism because it emphasizes emotions such as love and admiration and it reflects individual fulfillment. Also, like much Romantic literature, the poem challenges social conventions by comparing the woman's beauty to many dark things like "the night', "starry skies," and her "raven tresses" instead of adhering to the social norm of purity equating to light.
ReplyDeleteThe comparisons Sydonne refers to also demonstrate Romanticism's idea of appreciating nature. Lord Byron conveys this idea with words like "skies", "ray", "waves", and "raven" to describe his subject. Also, as Sydonne states, Lord Byron is describing the "ideal woman", an idea we learned in class was intensified by the poise and grace of Queen Victoria.
DeleteNice.
DeleteIn the 3rd of May painting, the Spanish man is portrayed as a martyr. This painting can be seen as a symbol of nationalism for the Spanish because the Spanish man that is painted is willing to die for his beliefs. The man's love for his country and his fellow Spaniards is so strong that he is willing to die for them.
ReplyDeleteYea, and also the man is more of a martyr because of his white shirt. The white shirt stands out and he is supposed to be seen as a symbol to the Spanish. The man is also is shown in a V shape which represents grace, which Napoleons troops clearly have no regard for.
DeleteI would also like to point out that the Spanish are all unarmed while the French are the only ones armed. Also the French are faceless while the Spanish terrified faces are in full view for extra sympathy points. This help paints (it's a pun) the French as evil brutal oppressors trying to suppress the defenseless and good Spanish people. Napoleon army preached freedom, fraternity and liberty which they applied only to themselves but never the less spread to the countries they conquer with Spain being one of many.
DeleteGroup 1: In "The Chimney Sweeper (Songs of Innocence)" William Blake describes the life of an orphaned child chimney sweep who reflects on a fellow chimney sweep Tom and a dream he had. This poem reflects Romanticism because it emphasizes the ills of society as a result of urbanization. The poem criticizes the Industrial Revolution by describing child labor and the ill fate of being orphaned. The children in the poem live in squalor and there is no way out because of the increasing urbanization and the need for more labor. Romanticists idealize nature and resent this rapid urbanization, just as William Blake shows through this poem.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Romanticism is seen as a reaction to the Industrial Revolution and the urbanization and poor working conditions that came along with it. This poem also demonstrates Romanticism's connection with liberalism at the time. The chimney sweeps are freed from their undesirable conditions and are transported to a wide open field, which also shows Romanticism's idea of the importance of nature.
DeleteIn response to Sydonne in the Chimney Sweeper, Blake uses the boy's life to merge a personal aspect that is apart of the Romanticism era. He takes the reader into the sweepers point of view and shows the different perspective he has. It shows How a person can be in another person's shoes. Blake also combines emotional aspects into the poem. He shows how he lost his parents and was completely alone in the world.
DeleteAlong with what sydonne said about children having ill lives. The kids believe as long as they go to work and behave then they will go to heaven and have God as their father. This is their belief that gets them through their hard day. This also shows them the Angel setting the boys free from their work..
DeleteI agree with Mazzini's view on Nationalism, in that it can only happen by changing the map of Europe or by owning the ground you try to conquer in the first place. The thing people don't get is that when colonizing something it doesn't matter if you make that area prosper with your colonization. People will still resist for they all have the national spirit to be known to the world as their own people.
ReplyDeleteThis is why Mazzini opens with the statement that "such unity is necessity in the world." He is saying how important it is that you unify your people through the same social ideas: language, faith, mission. He ends that paragraph by saying that use violence for unity only add to the crisis.
DeleteMine was Group two
DeleteMazzini: in this document, Mazzini states the Europe will be divided not according to having a common enemy (like it once was) but now it will be divided according to a "common effort and a common movement"and "sympathy and alliance will be its result". meaning if people are bound by nationalism--common language, goals, etc.--then alliances will follow.
ReplyDeleteGroup 1: William Blake's "The Chimney Sweeper" from Songs of Experience is about a little chimney sweep who is abandoned in the snow while his parents are at church. This poem reflects Romanticism because Romanticism stresses freedom from oppression. The child is clearly oppressed by unfair industry. This poem also reflects the Industrial Revolution by alluding to child abandonment because poor laborers during the Industrial Revolution could not afford to care for their children. Also, Romanticists often challenged constraints placed upon them by religion, which is demonstrated in the poem because the child's seemingly religiously upright parents have left him to be exploited by a corrupt industry.
ReplyDeleteI would like to add how Romanticists believed that reason cannot explain everything, and turned toward religion. When Tom dreamt of God being his father he was able to get up in the cold of the morning for work, happily. basically, Spirituality was the child's only hope and explanation for things I guess, and his source of happiness which reason cannot explain.
Deletethis was meant for sydonne's first post about Blake.
DeleteGroup 1: She Walks in Beauty by Byron
ReplyDeleteIn this poem, the author is discussing a beautiful woman. Byron contrasts night and day and dark and light to represent that the woman possesses different qualities that accentuate her beauty. It is ironic that a beautiful woman is compared to the night as well, because in those days, beautiful woman were usually compared to the day only. Also, the woman is said to have a "raven tress" which means she has black hair. This is ironic as well, because during this time, women with blonde hair were the predominantly beautiful ones. Lastly, the woman is described as being pure on the inside and outside as well. This poem represents romanticism because it contains qualities of individualism, rebellion, and creativity because Byron moves away from mainstream factors. Also, it relates to romanticism because of the appreciation of the woman's beauty.
Group 1: "The Chimney Sweeper" from Songs of Experience by Blake
ReplyDeleteIn this poem, a boy is out in the snow working, while his parents are at church. The poem portrays going to church as a bad thing in this case, because the son is suffering due to neglect from his parents. This is rebellious of Blake, making the poem apart of the romantic period. Also, the boy is being oppressed in a way and another theme of romanticism was freedom from oppression. Lastly, the poem is very emotional because the boy claims he is crying, is unhappy, and is clothed improperly. He refers to his clothes as "the clothes of death." Emotion was another prominent theme in romanticism.
It seems that Blake is saying that even though their life is bad now that if they keep doing good and working in this life them they will get to go to heaven.
DeleteI disagree with George here. I think the poem is not about working and getting into heaven but instead about how his society is more worried about heaven and praying then actually helping the people right in front of them like the boy out in the cold.
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Group 1: The Tiger by Blake
ReplyDeleteThis poem is full of rhetorical questions as the author questions the tiger and who created such a creature. The author makes a biblical illusion in one of the many questions: "Did He who made the lamb make thee?" The lamb is a reference to Jesus Christ because Jesus is the Lamb of God, thus making the "He" God. The author capitalizes "He" symbolizing the importance of the creator. Also, the creator is referred to as "immortal." This represents mystical factors which is a theme of romanticism.
I would like to add to Dilys' comment by saying how this poem relates to Romanticism because of its theme dealing with nature. It puts the view of the tiger into more emotional terms by breaking down its features and describing them in poetic detail. For example, Blake describes the animal having fire in its eyes and a furnace in its brain. Many Romanticism poems were written as a reaction against the scientific rationalization of nature.
DeleteAs Dilys and Kaylee said, this poem contemplates the creation of this animal. This is an example of how Romanticism is a reaction to Enlightenment thinking and the Scientific Revolution, which both employ reasoning to come to a conclusion. Blake's poem almost sounds like the unanswerable questions that were characteristic of Scholatisticism, with lines like "On what wings dare he aspire?" which basically made up the entire poem.
DeleteIn response to Kaylee's comment to Dilys the tiger does relate to nature but it also relates to an emotional appeal. Blake questions why would the maker create a tiger so beautiful but so violent. He questions the creator by telling the flaws of the tiger, this creates a emotional idea that lets the reader question if the maker is good or bad
DeleteIn response to Dilys--Along with who made the creature the author also questions how someone could have the courage to continue making it after its heart started beating, He describes the creator aka God as a blacksmith building on his furnace.When his work is finished he wonders if God looks down and is happy with his work.
DeleteGroup 1: "She Walks In Beauty" by Lord Byron displayed the more emotional aspects of the Romantic period. Byron is talking about a woman that he finds beautiful. He uses figurative, more artistic language to describe this woman. He describes her as "pure" which goes back to women being viewed as "the purest sex." Romanticism poets tried to channel a more philosophical, natural, and emotional way to write their poems.
ReplyDeleteRomanticism also has to do with the "primacy of the individual" and in this poem he is going in depth describing his ideal/perfect woman. That is just another example of how this poem is from the romanticism period.
DeleteIn response to George and Kaylee he does display the emotional side and the individual side but he also shows how nature and the woman relates. He goes into detail about her beauty and how it compares to night and the skies. Bryon goes on to tell how the woman is more beautiful than nature. He says if "One shade the more one ray the less and her grace would be impaired". He explains that if there was a slight change then she wouldnt be perfect. Overall Bryon blends the simplicity of the woman and nature together, which is a big point within Romantic poetry.
DeleteI also wanna add that a lot of Romanticism poetry was considered as a revolt against the aristocratic social and political norms of the Age of Enlightenment, and was an attempt to escape the confines of population growth, urban sprawl, and industrialism. William Blake emphasizes these themes by describing how children work in the chimneys in the new urban societies.
ReplyDeleteI would like to add to Kaylee's addition that Romanticists,through poetry also escaped the norms for enlightenment thinkers. Instead of shunning the "ignorant" ideas of the Middle Ages, they embraced, even yearned for the religious virtues of the time. They labeled it as a period of religious exploration and discovery.
DeleteVery good Kaylee and Sara Catherine. We always need to keep in mind the past artistic and philosophical movements.
DeleteGroup one: "She walks in Beauty," by Lord Byron is a pure, virtuous description of a woman who's inner thoughts express her outer beauty. He equates the woman with innocence and purity, or the ideals sought after in women. The poem is actually pretty modest in comparison with his more licentious poems. It reflects the subconscious, emotional attributes that are associated with Romanticism.
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ReplyDeleteGroup 2: I found the civilians to the right of the man being exectued interesting. They are caught in the middle of the conflict. They seem to have sympathy for the martyr but yet they are to cowardish to also stand up against the French. I think Goya puts them in the middle to show the tough choice to be made about whether to be nationatlistic and stand up for your country or to save youself and not resist oppression
ReplyDeleteThe Chimney Sweeper is definitely taking place during the Industrial Revolution with the child labor and terrible working conditions. and a Romanticism idea is for people to not be oppressed and the chimney sweepers seems to be oppressed
ReplyDeleteGroup 2: I like how in National Song of Hungary it mentions their fathers and then their children. He says how fathers resting in their graves sleep not in freedoms soil. He then says how his children will bless their names for what theyve done. This shows the importance of freedom to these people. That not only will their cause be for their children to come but also their resting ancestors. This shows strong traces of nationalism.
ReplyDeleteGroup 2: Giuseppe Mazzini was an Italian politician who advocated for Italian unification and was instrumental to the unification and independence of the country. In the document Mazzini defines nationality: common language, shared history, working together, etc. He formed a patriotic movement called Young Italy to free Italian states under foreign rule and unify Italy. Interesting his ideas of unification went outside of his native Italy, he was an early proponent of an unified Europe.
ReplyDeleteGroup 2: Petofi was a poet and key figure in the Hungarian Revolution. Petofi read this poem to a crowd in the thousand at the city of Pest. By the end the crowd began to march around the city, seizing the presses, liberating political prisoners, and declaring the end of Austrian rule. In the poem he calls the ruler as tyrant and he should be overthrown by them (magyers) which is similar to the English beheading Charles I. Though unlike the English the Magyars were not ruled by their own. It's better to die free than to live in chains. It preaches unity to achieve a shared sense of awesome for the children to sing about and sweep the least than awesome under the rug to be forgotten about.
ReplyDeleteLord Byron's Poem "She Walks in Beauty" clearly depicts how this time period frayed from the enlightenment in that it was not all about logic and reasoning, but the free flowing expression of emotions and a persons individuality.
ReplyDeleteConcerning Dilys' post about "The Tiger", this is an example of peoples' individuality and intuition about religion and about mystical factors of life.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sydonne's post about "The Chimney Sweeper": People did not just resent the rapid urbanization but in some ways loathed it. Many people of the romantic period truly found their spiritual identity within nature. Along with a closeness to nature the immoral wrongs within society fueled many authors and poets of this time.
ReplyDeletePetofi's "The National Song of Hungary is 1848," speaks about liberalism in a way. Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality. You see these ideas when he says things such as:"shall we be slaves? Or shall we be free," atlas! Till now we were but slaves," and "sleep not in freedoms soil." Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manefesto the same year that Petofi wrote this. I believe these two can be tied together because both liberalism and communism are a step towards equality among all people, however communism is a much more exaggerated form of liberalism.
ReplyDeleteIn Mazzini's On Nationality, he was for Italian unification but also wants European unification. He believes that this "new unity" can only be achieved if everyone gets in board with it and that those who use violence against it are only worsening the issue. The people believe that it is a social issue keeping them from unification and I agree with that because of the social changes that the Industrial Revolution brought about. It changed things politically, religiously, and brought an end to the distribution of wealth. It not only created the middle class but it also changed the social role that women and children had inside of the families and on the way that people were treated within the business that were created. Europe must unify all of these things together in the way that they make things, such as relationships healthier. They have to have a sense of nationalism but the kind that you get from unifying in a healthy way.
ReplyDeleteIn the painting The Third of May by Goya, the viewer is drawn to the one man standing with his arms raised and in clean white clothes. During this time a "v" is a symbol of peace and this man is standing with his arms raised into a "v." Also during this time peoples facials expressions told the story, and this mans face shows the viewer that this man is sad and very fearful he, along with the other men, stare down the end of the barrels in their faces. The man represents Christ in a way because of the way he is standing in as a martyr for the rest of them, which is represented by his bloodless white clothing. While you may not be able to see the faces of Napoleons army that are about to kill these Spaniards, you can clearly see the reelection of their nonchalant-ness in the faces of the victims. To the troops, these men seem worthless and meaningless, but the viewer is led to feel differently when they see the faces of these men.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see Moogoo and Bikel are still able to find the blog. Good job everyone. Except Dylan, Ralph, and Jacob.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Tucker's post about the National Song of Hungary, the mentions of the fathers and their sons shows how new of a movement and idea that nationalism was at the time. All of the prior generations had lived under slave-like rule and had done nothing about it because they did not see themselves as "Hungarian". The song displays the rapid growth in nationalism and the strong feelings every family had towards future freedom for their children.
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