Group #1- Look at Gladstone's Speech at Blackheath and Disraeli's speech at the Crystal Palace. Both men were Prime Ministers at one time. Think about all the changes going on in Great Britain during the 1800s and how both whigs and tories dealt with the changes.
Group #2- Look at Parnell on Home Rule and the Peoples Will
Think about the people that didn't prosper during the early 1800s Industrial Revolution and how they looked to change their position.
Each student needs to make three comments.
Group #1- Margaux, Libby, Jacob, Sydonne, Kelly, Kaylee, Ralph, George, Caroline
Group #2- Michael, Caleb, Dilys, Kil-hwan, Sara Catherine, Tucker, Bikel, Dylan, Reagan
The Whigs who were known officially as the Liberal Party believed that the government should be active in helping the poor/lower classes. Whigs also thought that these lower class citizens should be able to vote just like all other citizens. The more conservative Tories believed that it should be the upper classes' duty to help the poor and that lower class citizens should not vote or really have any say in government because they cannot be trusted.
ReplyDeleteExpanding on Margaux's discussion on the Tories: It is true that the Tories did not want poor people to vote because they wanted to keep traditional practices. The poor did not have any real representation before the creation of the Whig party and the Tories wanted to keep it this way. This is true, because the Tories believed that a poor person's vote was either worthless or detrimental due to being unreliable and untrustworthy. However, the Great Reform Bill increases the amount of voters by 50%. The Bill was probably one of the Tories' worst nightmares due to the extent that they resented it.
DeleteThe Whigs were also able to pass other legislation to expand people's rights. These included the Poor Laws of 1834 to reform relief for the poor, the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 to reduce the restrictions on Catholics, and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 to end slavery in the British Empire. Like the Great Reform Bill that Dilys mentioned, these other acts were not supported by the Tories. These acts demonstrate the social and political changes occurring at that time in Great Britain both because of the problems they were intended to fix and because they were passed.
DeleteThe reforms by the liberal Whigs also show a relatively new idea of class unity, at least on certain topics. After the definite formation of the middle class during the Industrial Revolution, the Whigs became the first group to be strongly supported by members of the middle and lower classes. This is similar to the June Days of the French Revolution of 1848, in which members of all three classes revolted against the rule of Louis Philippe, an idea new to European history.
DeleteOnce the Whigs became strongly supported by the lower classes the Tories became more conservative and wished to limit the power of ordinary people.
DeleteMost reform bills were passed by the Whigs and helped increase their power.
The Tories really believed that individuals were incapable of governing themselves and that the Whigs were destroying the foundations of Britain in name of Reform and progress. The Tories wanted to keep the status quo and prevent any changes from harming the country.
good job, nice thread. i like how you each added to and built on the previous comments.
DeleteIn Gladstone's speech he talks about how the working class is complaining about their conditions. However, he points out how the government has helped to improve their conditions. This speech is given around the end of the Industrial Revolution and the way Gladstone down plays their hardships shows how separated the upper class was from the lower and working classes
ReplyDeleteI would like to add to Libby's comment that Gladstone breaks down examples of each form of improvement made by the government such as new education paid for by the government and the wealthy class for the poorer classes and the reforming of Universities. Even though he mentions the good reforms that the government has made, he says that the government can also be the problem. He mentions that the government is not a friend of the population, and they teach that only radical movements can fix the problems in England.
DeleteAlso in Gladstone's speech, he agrees that reforms still need to be made for the working class. These views were shared by the whigs or the liberals during this time in England.
ReplyDeleteAn example of how Gladstone wants to keep reforming is how he agrees with the act passed by Parliament to improve education, but he believes Parliament should go farther and repeal the taxes on papers because it's hard for poorer people to get an education when they can't even afford paper.
DeleteIf they were trying to assist the working class with education, but also lowering taxes on paper goods could that mean that some reforms also called to include and assist the poverty stricken? Because although most reformers of this time did not want to grant poor people authority in government, but socially poorer people were getting more and more assistance. Just seems strange how the poor were seen as needing help but were never to have any say in their own government.
DeleteDuring this time period in Britain and across the continent, it finally seems as though the poor and lower classes were getting more acknowledgment in government. While the liberals may not have directly wanted to assist the poor, it would be difficult to reform the government without assisting the lower class, as the government was already harsh and quite unjust towards the poor. Government reforms would have to have changed this unfairness towards the poor, even if it was not a priority of the liberals and Gladstone.
Deletegreat point, moogoo. very thoughtful.
DeleteDisraeli would be considered to be a tory. he not only is against liberalism, but he seems to be offended by the idea of the liberals getting what they want. he shows this by using phrases such as "the assault of liberalism upon the house of lords..."
ReplyDeleteHe also seems to blame liberals for losing the colonies by saying, When those subtle views were adopted by the country under the plausible plea of granting self-government to the colonies, I confess that I myself thought that the tie was broken." I think he is saying that the liberal view of wanting self government caused the loss of the colonies and the "disintegration of the Empire of England".
DeleteHowever, similar to the political system in today's society, Disraeli may simply be blaming the Whigs for something bad but inevitable simply because he disagrees with their views. It may have been the liberal reforms that broke the ties with the colonies, or it may simply have just been an unavoidable event. Disraeli would likely blame any negative event on the changes introduced by the liberals, similar to the Republicans and Democrats of today's politics.
DeleteIt seems politics never changed. Even today we still have politicians blaming each other for every problem the country has. Disraeli is scared of liberal ideology and losing power. Liberalism did cause Britain to lose colonies, but is that a bad thing? For the upper classes yes because they lose an easy source of material goods for industry but for the people living there becoming independent was much better than living under imperial rule.
DeleteFor Disraeli losing colonies was horrible to the Tories
A little off topic Ralph. Nice thread though.
DeleteDuring the 1800s in Great Britain, a new political system was created. Britain became much more secularized because of the liberalist calls for reform. The Great Reform Bill was passed in 1832. This expanded the electorate to include those who had become wealthier as a result of industrialization. However, Tories, like Disraeli, believed that liberalism attacked established institutions under the pretense of progress. The Tories, as Disraeli asserts, believe that liberty and law cannot be trusted to individual opinion and that the liberalists are not acting in the best interest of Great Britain. Tories protested further reform in favor of maintaining the conservative institutions.
ReplyDeleteThe Tories addressed the problems of the industrial age by trying to maintain the institutions of the Old Regime. They saw dirty, poor, uneducated people and believed they could not govern themselves and that the upper educated classes needed to do it themselves.
DeleteAny radical change brought was seen as an attack on England. Luckily for them the changes brought were necessary to prevent revolution in England.
Group 1: During the 1800s in Great Britain, the working class called for political and social reforms. The Whig party of the government was in support of reform so it enacted several reforms that aided the working class. Free trade was enacted. Taxation was reduced without increasing burdens on any other class. Also, the electorate was expanded by 50 percent and voting was protected by the ballot. Gladstone, a Whig, asks the working class to be patient with the government because it accomplished so much already. However, he assures the working class that the government is still interested in their other grievances.
ReplyDeleteThe Tories were more in favor of nationalism than secularism. Nationalism is a political ideology that is concerned with identifying with one’s nation and showing patriotism. The Tories saw nationalism as the identification with traditional principles that at one time exhibited the greatness of Great Britain such as the gloriousness of the monarchy and the primacy of the Church in maintaining the national faith. However secularism is a turn towards worldly ideals and progress. Whigs supported secularization with their liberal reforms such as more freedom of the press, no unfair entry into the Civil Service, and wider accessibility of the proper education. Although the government did enact these reforms, Gladstone adheres to the liberalist emphasis on individual liberty when he points out that the government can’t make people happy through change. Only the individual can choose to be happy and enact change by his own means as well.
ReplyDeleteAn example of the Tories supporting the state over the individual can be seen with the Corn Laws which lasted from 1815 to 1846. The Tories supported this bill, which was a protective tariff placed on outside grains to encourage people to buy British goods. These laws greatly increased the price of grain for British citizens. The Whigs did not agree with this bill, and finally under the leadership of Robert Peel were able to repeal them.
DeleteIn the document, Parnell on Home Rule, Parnell is encouraging Irish people to fight against British oppression. He is encouraging Nationalism. The early Industrial Revolution incites a lot of these nationalistic ideas because people want to change the conditions they are living in. During the Industrial Revolution, Ireland was experiencing poverty, famine, and mass emigration due to poor conditions. Famine was the most prominent issue. Ireland experiences a dreadful potato famine as the crop continually failed which causes several people to leave the country. All of these conditions caused violent demonstrations to spread throughout Ireland due to the need for independence which could possibly fix some of these issues.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Dilys said but also another reason that the living conditions were bad was because the technology that the english had was not spread to Ireland which would also cause animosity toward the british
DeleteIn the People's Will, radical people of Russia are willing to go as far as conducting terrorist activities to reform society politically and economically. This activity can be seen in the attempted assassination of Czar Alexander in the Decembrist revolt. Also, Russia is very slow to Industrialize. Industrialization does not truly begin until the late 1800s. Russian cities struggled during the Revolution due to poor working conditions and serfdom. Because of this, serfs along with the secret Russian societies of soldiers revolt against the government. The serfs wanted serfdom to be abolished, while the soldiers in the secret societies wanted to implement ideas of political liberalism including popular representation, basic liberties, and self-government.
ReplyDeleteThey justified their means of terrorism by saying that it was inevitable response to the regime's use of violence against the revolutionaries. By assasinations, they felt they were putting pressure on the regime for change. And not only did the serfs and soldiers revolt, the movement started as a peasant-oriented socialism. This again shows the link to socialism and the conditions that came along with the industrial revolution.
DeleteIt is obvious that Gladstone is a Whig due to all of his talks about reforms and helping the poor which are very liberal ideas. He shows proof of this by saying: ".. if he be unable to meet the cost, it shall be defrayed on him by the state and by his wealthier neighbors." This quote is from where he was talking about how everyone should have a basic education and if they can't afford it then it will be paid by the state or from wealthy people.
ReplyDeleteI would say that Gladstone is a Whig because of his attitude towards reforming the government and thinking of the government as the enemy. His idea of taxes being too high and like George said, his idea of education being paid for by the state or the wealthy prove that Gladstone is trying to reform the government and is pushing for a more liberal state.
ReplyDeleteNot all Whigs were necessarily against the government, their ideas and reforms were just drastically different
DeleteCompared to Gladstone's speech, Disraeli wants to maintain the institutions of the country, an established Church, and a monarchy. In contrast to Gladstone, he believes that law, liberty and religion should not be entrusted to an individual. He says that "no society is safe without Established Church, and that "no society is safe unless there is a public recognition of the Providential government of the world, and of the future responsibility of man." He believes that men need to be responsible in their actions and backed up by a powerful government to help make decisions and laws.
ReplyDeleteWhile researching Gladstone and Disraeli, I came across an interesting fact: Disraeli was Prime Minister in 1868, immediately followed by Gladstone from late 1868 to 1874 , then Disraeli was elected to the position again and served from 1874 to 1880, followed once again by Gladstone who served from 1880 to 1885. I think that the interesting pattern of their elections speaks for the social and political conditions in England. Disraeli's first term was only from February to December of 1868 because he dissolved Parliament since the Tories did not have a majority. This and Gladstone's subsequent election demonstrate the growing support for the Whigs during this time, especially as the number of people able to vote doubled with the Great Reform Bill in 1832.
ReplyDelete...seems like that came up in class too... :)
DeleteParnell is talking about how the Irish should attempt to gain their independence because the English government has ignored the Irish. This explains why the Irish did not really take part in the industrial revolution because the English did not help supply them with resources and technology which caused Ireland to fall behind in advancement.
ReplyDeletei agree with what dylan is saying because Parnell says"we shall prove to be in the near future invincible and unconquerable." He's saying they won't stand for being non independent for much longer. And that they will soon have to force Irish politicians back from their goals.He doesn't know how they will settle this or how it will end but he wants their freedom.
DeleteNot only was Parnell advocating for Ireland in Great Britian, he even was trying to spread the cause for Irish independence in the United States as well. He raised £26,000 in America for the nationalistic cause. Even though he was able to gain this support from America and of course Ireland, his movement still wasnt enough.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/charles_stewart_parnell.htm
Tucker, why was Parnell's movement not strong enough? As I researched and further looked at Parnell himself, I found that he was quoted by the prime minister William Gladstone as "the most remarkable person he had ever met". Was his charm or persuasiveness not good enough for his movement? He even led the Irish Parliament Party as a member of Parliament and still did not get enough results for getting Ireland the representation it needed. Or did England just have to much power or did they just want to keep it?
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stewart_Parnell#Towards_home_rule
DeleteIn the final paragraph of Parnells piece, he says the words "ne plus ultra." This means "the highest point capable of being attained." This phrase sums up how the Irish felt that England was only holding them back and they no longer wanted to be under their rule. Their, "ne plus ultra," could not be reached under the rule of England therefore they wanted independence.
ReplyDeletealong with what shull is saying when Parnell says it is better to ask to much from your people and fail then to be subservient. He is saying he would rather be away from England and fail then to be stuck under England with no chance of ever growing and succeeding. This shows how much they want to get their independence even if it cost them.
DeleteWhen reading the Parnell on Home Rule, the phrase by Metternich came to mind, "When France sneezes all Europe catches cold". Even though the Irish push for Nationalism was later in the 1800's this shows that the phrase is very much true. The Irish are trying to get out of the struggle the British are placing on them. Even though they are "apart' of Great Britain the Irish still did not get the representation that they deserved. For example in Italy and Greece, people weren't being governed the way they wanted to and fought back against their higher powers. Ireland is a clear example of the lower people not being governed or treated properly which relates back to the phrase.
ReplyDeleteThe People's Will is also a representation of the neglect of the lower class by the government. In contrast, Russia wanted to destroy the government violently in hope that a revolution could instate a representative government.
DeleteThe People's will or the Narodnaya Volya is also a representation of the phrase I said above "When France sneezes, all Europe catches a cold". The difference between the Irish and the People's will is that the People's will took their representation and revolution to a whole different level by using terrorism. They came from an earlier organization called Zemlya Volya (land and liberty) that encouraged revolution impulses among Russian peasants. They wanted the same things as other revolutionists like a constitution, universal suffrage and democratic reforms but at a harsher way.
Deletehttp://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader1/p/NarodnayaVolya.htm
As Caleb said the peasants were encouraged by revolutionary impulses. I just find it appropriate that they Zemlya Volya used propoganda for this, because propoganda would most definetely be censored by the Russian government. Even in their terroristic influences they employed some of the rights they demanded, such as freedom of the press. I also found it fitting for Russia being the backwards nation it is to want a revolution after the ones in France, America, and the other European countries.
Deletehttp://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader1/p/NarodnayaVolya.htm
The peoples will showed how the russian people were becoming more and more restless due to the lack of reform in the russian empire. The terroristic actions of the russian people are a direct result of the government not doing anything for the lower class people which would culminate in an attempt on Alexander II life these revolts would lead to the abolishment of serfdom in the later part of the 19th century.
ReplyDeleteAlong with Dylan, this group was so sick of no help it lead to the assassination of Alexander II by this group. They lead their movement with terrorism and propaganda. They felt they should destroy the most harmful persons in the government.
DeleteAfter reading Parnell's speech I came to think of the American colonies and their motto, "No Taxation without Representation." The Irish people wanted proper representation for Ireland in the English Parliament, which led me to question England's judgement. They lost their colonies, for one reason, because of the lack of representation and voice in parliament. Why would they not expect a place like Ireland who is at an even closer [proximity to them to become belligerent. The Irish have always struggled to have a voice and this shows that Parnell wants them to take a stand as a nation and as one voice. It just made me question why England had issues with representation, because it could have held off a revolution for at least a couple of years.
ReplyDeleteIf I could describe The People's Will in one word, I would use Anarchy. The Party advocated all terrorist threats and violence. I also noted that in their thesis (last few lines) They broke down their cause: breakdown Governmental power, raise revolutionary spirit in contest with the government (hoping for future revolution), and they wanted to form a body suited to warfare. Being the backwards nation Russia is, instead of pushing for a constitutional monarchy, they seemed to want a representative government ruled by a belligerent people.
ReplyDeleteI would also describe it with the word: Liberalism or Socialism or even a hint of Democracy. The people's will after all contained the demands for universal sufferage, representation of people, freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of assembly. It also demanded for the factories to be in control of workers as well as the right of opressed people to self determination. I found the people of Russia to encourage a revolution which many nations previously tried. I can see this because of their demands along with the want for a constitutional monarchy, the same thing many other countries wanted during their own revolutions.
DeleteVery good job guys. Caleb, Kil-Hwan, and Sara Catherine especially.
DeleteGroup 2: After further reading the history of Irish hardships in the 1800's I could see why Parnell was ready for Ireland to strive to be a new nation. Protestant England always had a problem with Catholic Ireland. In the 1800's Britain set up the first police force in Ireland. They were known as the peelers. Now these peelers enforced the penal laws, which were laws that discriminated against non-Anglicans such as many of the Irish Catholics. Edmund Burke quoted these laws to be:"a machine of wise and elaborate contrivance, as well fitted for the oppression, impoverishment and degradation of a people, and the debasement in them of human nature itself, as ever proceeded from the perverted ingenuity of man." However this wasn't all. The industrial Revolution exploded the Irish population which sounds good until we get to 1846. The Irish potato famine. Potato was the main crop eaten by the Irish because it was the best crop they could grow with the little land they had. Now that big population boom was starving and many died from starvation along with other diseases. Now the British did set up soup kitchens but they set up no where near enough as many of the Irish were not aided. The irish didn't feel as though the british did all they could to help in it's hard times. Because of this many Irish left for America but guess what most of the Americans were from England in the first place so there was still that discrimination. Now because of all this history the Irish had, it was no wonder why in the Parnell speech for home rule there were lots of cheers and applauses. They were all riled up because they wanted a nation where they wouldn't be discriminated or be treated inferior to the Protestants England, also they wanted to worship their Catholic Religion freely without any penal laws getting in the way. I would react the same way as the Irish did to Parnell's speech if I was an Irish during these times
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/history/18001877.html
DeleteParnell was an Irish land lord, nationalist political leader, land reformed and most importantly was the founder if the Irish Parliamentary Party. He led the Irish Parliamentary from 1875 to 1891. He was elected as the House of Commons as a Home Rule League Member. He remained as a reserves observer of Parliamentary proceedings but later gained the publics attention later on.
ReplyDeleteParnell used his comments on the Home Rule as a way to get the majority of supports on his side for the upcoming general elections. By 1885 he was a leading political party I'm the election and pushed the Irish voters in Britain to vote against the liberals. First he supported a conservative government, but later switched his support to the liberals.
ReplyDeleteThe reason for Parnell's party swapping is because of the liberal leader William Gladstone who Parnell initially supported in the 1880 election. Parnell withdrew his support quickly after when Gladstone's Land Act of 1881 proved inadequate. Gladstone wrote the bill that demanded the three F's: fair rents, fixed tenancies and free sale. Though the bill worked in the short term, it excluded certain circumstances (ie peasant proprietorship) and became a complicated mess. Then the next year in 1882 Parnell and Gladstone negotiated a deal where Parnell's followers would be peaceful called the Kilmainham Treaty. In 1886, Parnell joined with the Liberals to defeat Lord Salisbury's Conservative government. Once again he showed his support of Gladstone after he become Prime Minister attempting to pass the first Irish Home Rule Bill though Parnell believe it was flawed.
Deletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/parnell_charles.shtml
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/ireland/gladire2.htm
The People's Will Party was a group formed from 30 dedicated narodiniks in 1879. After they had no success ok instigating the Russian peasantry the rebellion and instead meeting with brutal repression set out to overthrow the monarchy through terrorism. The terrorist tactics that the party created were called the theory of direct struggle.
ReplyDeleteThe Narodniks (meaning "going to the people") were Russian revolutionaries who formed as a response to the conflicts between the peasantry and the kulaks (Russian landlords). The group shared a common goal of otherthrowing the monarchy and kuklas and distributing the land to the peasants. Also despite wanting industrializing they didn't believe that capitalism was necessary and wanted to skip straight to socialism. While they believed the peasants were critical to starting a revoultion they would not do so of their own accord unless an outstanding hero led the charge. Later the Narodniks formed the party called the People's Will. Though the party did not last long its M.O (tactics, ideas and practices) was adopted by later parties.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.marxists.org/glossary/orgs/p/e.htm
DeleteParnell and the Irish peasant and the Russian peasants and the Narodniks were similar because they are class of people at odds with their oppressive landlords. Another similarity is the devolution into terrorism (an Irish terrorist group murdered two British officers) even though Parnell condemned it and sought to maintain a peaceful policy. Parnell encouraged the peasants to boycott the landlords which he was thrown in jail for and from the jails cells encouraged the peasants not to pay their landlords. A final similarity they share is like the People's Will who inspired later parties, Parnell militancy inspired later Irish revolutionaries.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/parnell_charles.shtml
ReplyDeletehttp://history1800s.about.com/od/irelandinthe1800s/p/Parnell01.htm